Faithfullyliven:the podcast
Do you want to learn how to study the Bible? Do you wish you could understand the Bible better? Do you want to know how you can remain faithful to historic Christianity in our contemporary society? Let's take a journey to explore and learn how to be a faithful follower of Christ. Faithfullyliven, the podcast is here to uplift your soul and encourage you to live a life honoring to God
Faithfullyliven:the podcast
Speaking truth boldly in a secular culture with Kelli Johnson
Are you prepared to stand firm in your faith amidst a culture that often blurs the lines of absolute truth? Join me, as I engage with the insightful Kelly Johnson, an ardent apologist, who brings to the table a wealth of experience in teaching truth with boldness in a secular world. Our candid conversation promises to equip you with the understanding of how to root your perception of reality in Christ, as revealed in Scripture, and how to articulate this truth with unwavering conviction in a society that may challenge the very notion of truth itself.
Connect with Kelli
Follow on G apologetically_female
Her blog https://apologeticfemale.blogspot.com.
Youtube @Apologeticallyfemale
Do you want to learn how to study the Bible? Check out the YouTube channel Faithfullyliven youtube.com/@faithfullyliven
Do you want to read about how to live faithfully? Check out the blog http://lyfe102.org
Get a free Road Map to get started learning how to study the Bible https://mailchi.mp/88f9c9405da0/bible-study-road-map
Welcome to Faithfully Living, the Podcast, where we learn how to live for Christ in our daily lives. I am Dwan, your host, and I would like to invite you on a journey with me to explore and learn how to be a faithful follower of Christ. Hi everyone, welcome to Faithfully Living, the Podcast, where we strive to encourage you to live for Christ faithfully by offering guidance on studying the Bible, how to understand the Bible better and how to remain faithful to historic Christianity in a contemporary society. So what is truth and why is knowing truth important? You know, as believers, we're called to speak truth in our world today. So how can we do this? In this episode, I talk with Kelly Johnson about speaking truth boldly in a secular culture. All right, so stay tuned for this conversation. But before we get started with our conversation, let me tell you a little bit about Kelly.
Speaker 1:As a homeschool mom of three wonderful children, over a decade, kelly Johnson has honed her writing skills and passion for making the difficult things in life more easily understood in a variety of applications. Married to a very patient and godly man, for the past 16 years she has been supported in all of her endeavors of learning, growing and sharing what knowledge with whoever the Lord gives opportunity to Learning to walk with the Lord. While constantly plagued by undiagnosed medical issues, kelly has shifted her energies into creating curriculum and Bible studies for women and youth in her local community. She teaches apologetics as well as a variety of topics such as covenant lament and suffering, old Testament studies, the metanarrative of the Bible and more in her local church, women's Bible studies and in youth groups, as well as occasionally posting on her YouTube channel Apologetically Female and writing on her blog apologeticfemaleblogspotcom.
Speaker 1:All right, let's dive into today's episode. Hi, kelly, welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having me. I'm so glad you're here to talk about our topic, about learning how to you know, be bold and speak the truth to the, to the world around us. But before we get started, tell us a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, let's see, I've been married about 17 years now, coming up on 18. My husband is a very amazing, patient, sweet guy and I'm very blessed to live life with him. I have three kids. My oldest is 15. So he is a freshman in high school this year, which is crazy. He's so big. I just am amazed how fast it goes. And then I, my middle is, let's see, she is 13 and you know, 13 going on, probably 23. And then my youngest, she is 11, almost 12 in a couple of weeks. And we homeschool. We've always been homeschoolers. We are really blessed to be able to do that. We love it. It's challenging at times but it's worth the effort. And we live in Tampa, florida. We've been here almost seven years and we've kind of lived in a few places, but we finally have some roots here and we have a beautiful church and community that we're a part of. And, yeah, we just were really really blessed in so many areas.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that's great. It's good to know that you're homeschooled. I was homeschooled myself.
Speaker 2:Oh wonderful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, got to know the routine a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's becoming more popular, which is kind of fun.
Speaker 1:All right, so let's dive into our topic. Like I said, we're talking about speaking the truth in a culture that is secular. That you know is secular, and a lot of times, you know, the world doesn't necessarily agree with us. And no, we don't agree with the world. And so they think, oh, if you don't agree, you know we're intolerant of their ideas and what they think. So I think it would be important to kind of like start at the foundation as, like, what is truth?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's really important, especially as Christians, to define our terms right away. So we're all on the same page about what we're actually talking about, and so I think that's really important. But, essentially, truth is what is real, so nothing is like true or false simply because we believe it to be so. It's what is grounded in reality, and, as Christians, we believe that truth is grounded in who God is, because he created reality. So it's just this. It's an attribute that defines and emphasizes His divine reliability and His steadfastness.
Speaker 2:And we see, in John I'm actually studying John with my I teach at church and my sixth grade girls were studying John, so I probably quote John a lot today, but our class verse is actually John 17, 17, which is sanctify them by your truth. Your word is truth, and Jesus says I'm the way, the truth and the life, and so truth is essentially a person. It's the person of Christ, and yeah, and so as Christians, we define truth as Christ, his word, which is Christ, you know, which is the word made flesh, and so truth is just what is real, and I think that's really lost in society today, just reality in general. So, yeah, that's how I would define it, how I think scripture defines it as well.
Speaker 1:I think it's important to you know, find truth in the person of Christ. And so, since you know the world doesn't necessarily ascribe to what we believe, what would their term for truth be, or how would they see truth?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think today's you know, popular definition would just be you know, truth is seen as relative to oneself, or we would maybe use the word subjective right, it's rooted in the subject or the person who is making the truth claim Morals or things that are seen are right and wrong no longer apply universally to everybody.
Speaker 2:It's just individual truth, just individual truth, just individual feelings, individual convictions, and that can be a really dangerous place for society to end up. Uh, and in fact, this isn't even the world in general. But in 2020, there was a study done and evangelicals, who are defined as those who believe the bible to be the true, reliable word of God, are just as likely to reject absolute moral truth as to accept its existence. And so that's about 46 to 48 percent of evangelical Christians, so only a minority of born-again Christians 43 percent of us still embrace absolute truth. So this isn't even like an outside world thing. This is an inside church thing as well, and so I think, when morality is reduced to personal tastes or cultural norms, which we see especially in the West, what is good now turns into what feels good, and again, this can produce a lot of dangerous situations for a lot of people. So, yeah, it's not a place we want to be as a society of right and wrong, especially when it comes to truth.
Speaker 1:My right can be different from yours and that can be good for me but not good for you, like harming other people, people's mindset of you know right and wrong, which Right? That can be scary when you think about it. So that kind of leads into our question. I think you kind of answered why knowing truth is important. Because you know the truth gives us a foundation for you know right and wrong and the moral standard of like what God has laid out in his word for us to you know, obey and to glorify him.
Speaker 1:Would, there be any other things you can think of that would be important.
Speaker 2:Well, I think that one of the major implications for this reality that's, you know, pervasive in society, is, natasha Crane says in her book Faithfully Different.
Speaker 2:She says when judging becomes the ultimate sin, which if you say something's right or wrong, that's seen as judgment. And so when judging becomes the ultimate sin, evangelism is seen as condemnation, which is completely unbiblical, because Romans tells us, therefore there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ. And so it really starts to distort so many things, like it's not isolated unto itself, like it bleeds into every aspect of truth and truth claims. And so, as Christians, we really have to fight for what is true. We are called to evangelize, we're called to share the good news, and if that is seen as condemnation, because, well, you can't tell me what's right and wrong, because my right is different than your right or my wrong is different than your wrong, then we have a really tough uphill battle before us. You know, just trying to have logical conversations with people about their need for Christ and the solution to evil and just everything that's wrong with the world. And so we can't even get to that if we can't have conversations about objective truth and morality.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's why it's so important, I think, when you quoted that statistic, as far as you know, even people Christians don't believe in you know truth. They believe it's relative to you know, you and me. That's even a more up here battle as far as what people truly believe in and why so it's. We have to evangelize ourselves before I think we can evangelize you know the world. So that's kind of like a battle that I think we're probably going to have to, you know, overcome also. Yes, yeah, yeah. So so what would be like some strategies or techniques that you would recommend for like effectively communicating the truth? My question says like to the secular world, but we know it's not just the secular world now we know it's believers and you know, non-believers alike.
Speaker 1:So how would we do that?
Speaker 2:you know, non-believers alike. So how would we do that? Yeah, well, first and I really believe this, and I really even when I'm teaching apologetics or Bible lessons I always start with like, first we have to know the truth and not just know it, but know it really deeply If we want to share it. There's no shortcuts to abiding with Christ, because it's through the overflow of our love for Him that we share that with the world, and we can't share what we don't have. I might recognize somebody's hungry, but if I don't have food to give them, then I can't solve that, I can't share that. And so I think this is often overlooked in people who are new to apologetics. A lot of times they just want to learn to make really good arguments, but they don't have that deep, abiding relationship, that union with Christ relationship, and so it becomes almost a sphericidical approach to defending the faith. It's just like this head knowledge of good arguments, and so we have to really, I think, protect against that. We have to really guard our own hearts against that issue. Within mixing apologetics with how you share the gospel, so biblical literacy and a love for Christ always must come first, and that just comes with abiding and loving your creator. But then next I would say we need to learn to kind of meet people where they are in their journey and then walk alongside them.
Speaker 2:Most conversions today they're not from a street corner preacher yelling to them about hell. A lot of people think they know what Christianity already is, and so it becomes this kind of white noise. But most conversions to the Christian faith happen in a safe and loving relationship with people who understand their innermost struggles and their innermost desires and their innermost desires. And so if we just love people well, if we listen well to their stories, then we can kind of enter into those stories and show them how the gospel can actually fulfill their greatest need, which is to be right with Christ. Right, they need a Savior from their sins.
Speaker 2:And so I think that you know putting forth the effort to know people and love people well, which is the command in scripture. Anyway, this is where we're going to see transformed lives. But that takes time, it takes patience and it takes, you know, little bits of work here and there. There's so much information overload in people's lives that if we just come at them with these Christian words, like you, you need a savior. You have sinned, you know, like Jesus died for you, like all of these words carry different meaning to different people, and so we have to kind of back up, define our terms, you know, give um what Augustine called like mass to words, weight and meaning to words, before we just start throwing them at people. And this is going to happen through relational interactions, and so I think that is probably the most effective way to communicate truth.
Speaker 1:Today, when we're talking about all the noise around us, I liked how you started with biblical literacy, you know, knowing what the Bible says. Because if you don't know what the Bible says, how can you you know, tell someone else about it.
Speaker 1:Like, I like that you started from, from the foundation. You know the Bible, knowing what God's word said. You know when we sometimes people aren't, as you know, ready to talk to people, sometimes they have fears and hesitations about you know, talking to, you know the people that are around them. What would be, what would be some advice that you can give to people to kind of overcome their fear or hesitancy of talking to to people?
Speaker 2:the people to kind of overcome their fear or hesitancy of talking to people? Yeah, I actually think this is a really really good question, because it's one that every Christian needs to ask. The belief that you can be neutral is just be neutral and avoid controversy. It's kind of naive and it's just untrue controversy it's kind of naive and it's just untrue. And before that persecution comes from standing on truth, we have to count the cost of our faith. I talk to my young people, my youth groups, all the time about counting the cost, because there's no neutral ground. You're either furthering God's kingdom or you're furthering the kingdom of darkness. There's no neutral ground. You're either furthering God's kingdom or you're furthering the kingdom of darkness. And we have to pick a side. We can't have one foot in one and one foot in the other. And then, once we've decided who in this life we will serve, then we have to hold our ground. We have to love God more than we love anything else in the world and we have to believe the word of God more than we believe anything else in the world.
Speaker 2:A great resource for this is actually a book by the biblical counselor Edward Welch. The book is called when People Are Big and God Is Small, and it was very instrumental and helpful in my walk to sit down and assess what I was placing too much of my faith and hope in without realizing it. You know some of those hidden idols that we cling to, and it was just a really helpful resource. I encourage everyone to read that book. But we just always need to be eternally minded. We're in the world but we're not of the world, and so we fix our eyes on the hope that is set before us, just as Christ did when he walked that hill to Calvary.
Speaker 2:Scripture reminds us that it was the joy set before him that he endured the suffering of the cross, and if we're to become Christ-like we have to look at his life.
Speaker 2:And you know, to think that we can get out of what you know what he couldn't or chose not to get out of is kind of silly. So I think if we remain eternally minded and we hold loosely to the things of this world, you know with open hands, you know kind of like Job did, like he gives and he takes away, knowing that it's all for our good in the end and for his glory, then you know we can trust. You know we talked about truth and like that steadfastness of his character you know we talked about truth and like that steadfastness of his character we can trust that it is for our good and that it is for his glory, and that I mean. Life is such a vapor and if we're living in light of that eternity and that hope that he promises us, I think that will help us overcome that hesitation and help us realize that the cost is actually not that great in terms of eternity, it's just temporary.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think if you look at that perspective, it makes it just a tiny bit easier. But also, like when you said that you know we can't be neutral, we have to be one side or the other. I think it's important that we already make that decision in our head before you know the situation comes. So we'll have to say, oh, this is my decision that I've made. I got to stick to it because it's the truth and I'm standing for, you know, the glory of God. So I think that was very good that you pointed out there that we can't be neutral.
Speaker 1:We have to pick a side.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and just as an example, like a real life example, about almost eight years ago my body got very sick. I was a competitive athlete. I trained MMA, CrossFit, you know, olympic weightlifting. I was like competing and very, very healthy, very active, very on the go, and then almost overnight my body just shut down and for the last eight years doctors have not been able to figure out why or what it is.
Speaker 2:I don't have a diagnosis, I'm in a lot of pain, I can't do most of the things I used to do, and I had to reconcile the loss of my health, the loss of just being able to do whatever I put on my to-do list, kind of in my own strength, so to speak.
Speaker 2:But through my suffering I learned that he's still good, he's still faithful, and through the pain the Lord has had me write lessons and studies to help women and youth learn to suffer well and how to lament and how to find the goodness in the pain. And I would have never done that or been able to speak into that had I not suffered myself. And so it ultimately has been for my good, because it's refined my faith, it's sanctified me much quicker than if I were doing most things in my own strength and it's been a blessing to others for his glory. And so I speak as somebody who has had to walk that path for many years, and so I don't naively say like, oh, suffering so great and you know like it's fine I. I know what it's like to suffer and to hurt daily, but he's still good and it's still worth the cost, you know, because, like I said, this life is short and I'm living for eternity, ultimately, so yeah, Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is, you know, always good in it for our good, you know, the greater good to draw us closer to him even though you know, always good in it for our good. You know the greater good to draw us.
Speaker 2:And I tell them no because I know the depth of my faith before I became sick and although it wasn't shallow, it wasn't nearly as sweet as it is now. You know, because many days the first words out of my mouth are Lord, help me, sustain me. So I don't just pop out of bed in my own strength ready to go and, you know, kind of ignore him throughout my day, Like the, my first thought is of him every day, and there's such sweetness in that. Um, it's really beautiful how the Lord draws you to himself in in tough times.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it's, it's. It's a very sweet place. I don't think we want to give that up, you know, just for something else, for temporary comfort. Yes.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:Like you said, we're looking for looking at eternity and not this temporal world, yeah, or this temporal body, because we're going to get a new one. Praise the lord for that, um. So I think you kind of touched on a little bit about suffering, like what can believers expect, um, when they stand for truth? Is there any other thing you want to elaborate on that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, back to John. John 15 tells us that you know, if the world hates, you know that it hated me first. You know. I'll just read 18 and 19 here. It says if the world hates, you know that it has hated me before, it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own. But because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, Because of this, the world hates you. So just, you know. It says because of this, because you have chosen, you know, the kingdom of light, the world hates you.
Speaker 2:And I tell my young people this all the time, Like we will never fit in, we just won't. You know these two kingdoms, they're at war, Um, and, as I stated before, like we can't be neutral and some of us might be asked to give up and we have to decide, like you said, ahead of time, if we're willing to pay the price, but that's okay, you know of time, if we're willing to pay the price, but that's okay, you know, because we find comfort in our eternal hope and promise. So just an important reminder that even in the church, you know minority. So even within the church and I tell my young girls this, who are so desperate to fit in, you know, in middle school.
Speaker 2:I'm like you won't fit in. You won't even fit in at church and that's okay. You know that's actually a good thing because you know the way is narrow and so if you are not following the masses and the crowds, you're probably doing okay and so I just find that encouraging. I, as somebody who was kind of nerdy growing up, fitting in was very important to me as a young person and you know, as you draw close to the Lord and realize just how sweet and good and gracious and merciful he is, those, those things don't matter anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's. It's really beautiful place to be in. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so how can we, how can we take steps to prepare to speak boldly?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, as we said before, you know abiding in Christ is always number one. You know I am the vine, we are the branches. You know you're the branches John reference again. But abiding with Christ, being in union with Christ and understanding the spirit who every believer has. His job is to equip us for every good work, and that is speaking truth boldly and so we can trust it. We pray before, during and after conversations for wisdom and trust that he's going to be right beside us.
Speaker 2:I find that reading biographies is really helpful of strong men and women of the faith, because it gives us a wonderful picture of those willing to stand firm and strong for the truth, no matter the cost. Perpetua is one of my favorites. Here's this young girl, and she was just like a teenager and, you know, thrown into the dungeons of the Coliseum. She's pregnant, she has a baby. You know she gives up her baby, knowing she's going to die. She gets in, you know she suffers just incredible atrocities. Time for her to be executed. The guards were so moved by her unwavering faith that the one who went to perform the execution told her I'm going to make this quick so you don't suffer. And she said no, I want to be more like Christ. I want to suffer like my Lord. Don't make it quick. I mean, that is so powerful, like to have a faith so strong and unyielding in the face of imminent death after you've just had a baby. It's just, I mean, it's so encouraging.
Speaker 2:So I love reading biographies of men and women of the faith, and then I think the other thing we can do is just study theology, study the culture and then learn how to bridge that gap. So many people only study theology and some people only study culture. But I think to be effective evangelists or apologists today in the world and the America that we live in, we have to study both and we have to find that bridge on how to connect with people. So, like I said, a lot of people think they already know what Christianity stands for and means, and most of it's not accurate at all, and so we have to enter in relationship, walk alongside people and be that bridge for the culture. So I think that that's really helpful as well.
Speaker 1:Okay, those are good. I like reading biographies too. It's always helpful to learn about how other people live out their faith in difficult times and they're a little bit more more. Not saying that the people of the bible are so far away, but in biographies sometimes they're a little bit more closer to you know who we are, and they're not that long ago in history. They're kind of like right in our century or time frame a little bit yeah, right exactly yeah. So what encouragement can you give for people to to stand boldly for truth?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think ultimately, like and mostly, that it's just. It's just worth it, like Jesus is worth it. We have this holy majestic God who created the universe, you know, and he leaves his throne in heaven, comes as an infant to our dying and broken world. He lives the life that we were supposed to live, dies the death we deserve all to pay the redemption costs so that we can spend eternity with him. Like I can't think of anything more encouraging than the gospel spelled out with him. Like I can't think of anything more encouraging than the gospel film out. I mean, it's just the most beautiful story you could ever tell. It's extremely compelling. I think. I really don't think you can top the gospel.
Speaker 2:I think I just leave it as that, you know. But if we really picture every part of the gospel story, every part of the redemptive narrative of this awesome holy creator God, who you know, I mean he's almighty and he chooses to leave that throne, to come down to earth in our sin and brokenness, and so that he can be that bridge, so that he can redeem us, with a very costly price, I mean, the blood of the holy creator god was the ultimate price to pay, all so that we could be with him forever, like that's, that's very compelling.
Speaker 1:Amen to that. Well, this has been, has been, a very, you know, encouraging and enlightening conversation, as far as you know knowing what truth is and how to speak boldly for Christ in our lives. So, to wrap up, what encouragement would you have like in general for believers who want to live faithfully for Christ?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So AW Tozer states that the goal of every Christian should be to live in a state of unbroken worship. I just love that, to live in a state of unbroken worship. And so in order to do that, I think we walk with God every day, every minute of every day. And to walk with God means we choose to glorify Him in every way we can, regardless of the personal cost and there is a cost, there's always a cost.
Speaker 2:But the Lord is so sweet and merciful, and so I think my prayer would be just Psalm 27, 4, which is I'll just read it here it says One thing I have asked of the Lord that I will seek after that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life to gaze upon the beauty of the Lord and to inquire in His temple, and I hope that becomes every believer's prayer, like the one thing that I want to ask for is to gaze upon the beauty of the Lord forever and ever, I think. I think that should be the heart cry of everyone who abides with him. It's just just to know, to, to be known, fully known, and to fully know the, the, the God who created you and who has a plan for you and who loves you and who's redeemed you, and and who you get to spend eternity with I. I think that, um, that would be my prayer for everybody. Psalm 27, four.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow. Well, thank you for that and thank you so much for coming on the show. Where can people connect with you if they wanted to?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you can find me on Instagram at apologeticallyfemale Little play on words there Some people it's a good conversation starter, so apologeticallyfemale and then also on YouTube. I post some of my teachings. I have a lament series. I post all of my youth teachings and some of my apologetic teachings, and that's also apologetically female.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right. Well, once again, I'm so grateful that you came on the show. Thanks for being here.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me. It's been great grateful that you came on the show.
Speaker 1:Thanks for being here. Thank you for having me. It's been great. So I hope this episode was helpful to you in learning about truth and how to be, how to speak boldly about it. I know it. I sure learned some things in this episode talking to Kelly. So until next time, remember God is always good and he's always faithful. Until next time, remember God is always good and he's always faithful. Thank you for listening to the podcast. Do me a favor by following the podcast and leaving a review to help spread the word. I look forward to hearing from you. You.
